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Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:07:13 So I was doing some L4 missions getting beat up. I go to repair my ship, and think I'd save about 30 seconds by using the repair shop. I'm used to games like WoW or every other MMO where the game gives reasonable prices for its NPC services. I repair and it takes 5 million!!! out of my wallet. That's 5 hours of my game time down the drain. I'm on that 5 day trial reinvite they sent to old accounts and I just have to say I'm amazed. That has to be a bug? I petitioned hoping I can get a refund and I'll just repair with a 10,000 ISK module and not having wasted by time by being ripped off by NPCs. This hurts my morale pretty bad, to have to play 5 more hours just to pay that back. Now I have to go finish my mission but the reward is like a debt to pay off this NPC scam.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:18:00 - [2] Originally by: Crackzilla Someone post that learning curve image. See why this game is great? Even the NPCs scam. Gotta watch out for everything. Wait till you visit player owned stations that'll charge whatever they can get away with. Besides, if you've played before you should know better. I don't think senseless pricing from NPCs makes any sense, and if a dev will post here saying it's intended to be a scam from the game system itself (which is supposed to be the only safe system in EVE) then I'll accept that. Otherwise I think they should fix their repair prices if they want anyone other than people getting tricked into paying it to use it.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Gojyu If you are running level 4's, and you are making 1mil isk an hour, you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. You know you have to fit weapons on your bs right? Second of all, on your wow comment, as a naxx raider, lol wut? Oh you mean I need weapons to kill NPCs? Wow I didn't know that thanks. I'll try that next time. /sarcasm I don't need help with my missions tyvm. I was posting about ridiculous NPC repair prices. Imagine if WoW charged 5,000 gold for a flight path trip.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:29:00 - [4] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:31:53 Originally by: Gojyu On average, running level 4 combat missions with decent skills should be netting you between 10-20mil isk an hour, depending on said skills and ship fitting. Thus, a 5mil repair should be about 15-30 minutes of your mission running time. Given that you should hardly, if ever, go into damage you're not tanked for, this is not that bad a deal. Your problem is not that you are being charged 5mil isk for a repair job, your problem is that you're somehow only earning 1mil isk an hour running your missions. To continue the wow theme, imagine trying to purchase a mount through farming level 10 mobs outside your capital city. It would take a while wouldn't it? and anyone who did it would think the price of said mount to be astronomical, given it'd take years to accumulate the gold from said mobs I didn't ask about optimal ISK/hr, I play to enjoy myself not slave mine ISK. No I don't have a faction fitted perma-tank, but I do fine anyways. I didn't mention my ship because it's irrelevant, but you criticize it without having seen it. Maybe it's you fitting no guns and tech 1, because you criticise my tech 2? Have you ever heard of a challenge? No? Ok then, maybe WoW is more suited to you. I like a challenge, but that isn't what this post is about. It's about NPC prices which don't make sense; you can buy a module for a fraction that does the same thing.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Crackzilla Most people purchase a service only after looking at the quote. The point is so that people generally don't use the npc services. There are player owned stations in 0.0 that have better deals (assuming you've got the right connections). Then there are other options like remote reps and local repping. NPC services are easy and so expensive. I'm in empire, and if it's in game then obviously people should be using it, or it's an obsolete feature and my complaint has merit.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Khemul Zula And people can get sex for free at most clubs/bars. Doesn't stop them for paying for high priced call-girls and ruining a political career. EVE is a lot like that actually.... I didn't pay for a high priced repair job that came with a lapdance. Your analogy doesn't work. If devs will give me a lapdance with my repair then maybe I'll consider it worth the ISK.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:39:00 - [7] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Gojyu If you are running level 4's, and you are making 1mil isk an hour, you are doing something horribly, horribly wrong. You know you have to fit weapons on your bs right? Second of all, on your wow comment, as a naxx raider, lol wut? Oh you mean I need weapons to kill NPCs? Wow I didn't know that thanks. I'll try that next time. /sarcasm I don't need help with my missions tyvm. I was posting about ridiculous NPC repair prices. Imagine if WoW charged 5,000 gold for a flight path trip. You know you have to activate the weapons also right? Otherwise they just sit there looking pretty. No I didn't know I have to activate weapons. I just beat Worlds Collide without doing that. Am I good?
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Khemul Zula And people can get sex for free at most clubs/bars. Doesn't stop them for paying for high priced call-girls and ruining a political career. EVE is a lot like that actually.... I didn't pay for a high priced repair job that came with a lapdance. Your analogy doesn't work. If devs will give me a lapdance with my repair then maybe I'll consider it worth the ISK. They do offer this servive though. You have to petition it though. I sent a petition but I can't find it. Its not in the petition button menu, I can't find my lapdance.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:43:00 - [9] Originally by: Karanth Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Crackzilla Most people purchase a service only after looking at the quote. The point is so that people generally don't use the npc services. There are player owned stations in 0.0 that have better deals (assuming you've got the right connections). Then there are other options like remote reps and local repping. NPC services are easy and so expensive. I'm in empire, and if it's in game then obviously people should be using it, or it's an obsolete feature and my complaint has merit. Well in my case it's way faster to rep modules and drones and the occasional bleed-through via the station repair services than it is to bother refitting and undocking and then doing work or using paste. Just because you can't think up a reason to make it useful doesn't mean it isn't. It's a bigger waste of time to refit to fix 20 hull of a BS than it is to have them do it. It wasn't 20 hull, it was easily repaired armor. It wasn't worth my ISK. 500k would be many times more and I could understand it, 5.25 million in a 1.0 seucurity no way. That's just asking to rip people off without a lapdance.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Kate Nexus if it's in game then obviously people should be using it People should be using what they can afford. What if we're playing Boardwalk and you land on my Park Place or Boardwalk property? It'll cost ya... Nothing wrong with that. I can afford it, but it's a waste of my time to remake that ISK. It's not boardwalk, it's a heavily inflated NPC price in a noob system that nobody in their right mind would intentionally use.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Sral TBear Armour and hull reppers are your friends....damege to modules....well i have never lost a module to this....and with damege to the drones....Armour remote reppers and hull remote reppers are your friends.... Thanks. One nice poster finally. This forum hasn't changed much. Yeah I like repairers too. I've played a lot of MMOs since EVE and I guess I've been used to ballpark reasonable prices from NPCs. I know to be careful of players in EVE, but it's always been the game policy (back when I played) that you could trust NPCs and the game software itself.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Khemul Zula Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Kate Nexus if it's in game then obviously people should be using it People should be using what they can afford. What if we're playing Boardwalk and you land on my Park Place or Boardwalk property? It'll cost ya... Nothing wrong with that. I can afford it, but it's a waste of my time to remake that ISK. It's not boardwalk, it's a heavily inflated NPC price in a noob system that nobody in their right mind would intentionally use. That actually is the definition of Boardwalk. Boardwalk is worth the value you buy it for. I didn't rent repairs from you, I bought repairs from a station. That's nothing like buying boardwalk and being able to rent it out as a business strategy. You're trying too hard to use silly analogies without addressing my core suggestion.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:51:00 - [13] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 07:31:53 Originally by: Gojyu On average, running level 4 combat missions with decent skills should be netting you between 10-20mil isk an hour, depending on said skills and ship fitting. Thus, a 5mil repair should be about 15-30 minutes of your mission running time. Given that you should hardly, if ever, go into damage you're not tanked for, this is not that bad a deal. Your problem is not that you are being charged 5mil isk for a repair job, your problem is that you're somehow only earning 1mil isk an hour running your missions. To continue the wow theme, imagine trying to purchase a mount through farming level 10 mobs outside your capital city. It would take a while wouldn't it? and anyone who did it would think the price of said mount to be astronomical, given it'd take years to accumulate the gold from said mobs I didn't ask about optimal ISK/hr, I play to enjoy myself not slave mine ISK. No I don't have a faction fitted perma-tank, but I do fine anyways. I didn't mention my ship because it's irrelevant, but you criticize it without having seen it. Maybe it's you fitting no guns and tech 1, because you criticise my tech 2? Have you ever heard of a challenge? No? Ok then, maybe WoW is more suited to you. I like a challenge, but that isn't what this post is about. It's about NPC prices which don't make sense; you can buy a module for a fraction that does the same thing. I don't know if CCP likes this idea, but maybe you should be able to use armor and shield reps in station, OR it should be based on HOW MUCH hp your healing and not the cost of the ship. thoughts? That sounds good, but they should disable the repairshop or reduce the price to something reasonable. The ISK flow will increase if it's competitive, right now I can only imagine in empire people who get tricked into it use it and nobody else. From ISK sink perspective they'd sink a lot more ISK with lower prices.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:53:00 - [14] Originally by: Crackzilla Originally by: Kate Nexus it was easily repaired armor. It works out so 100% of struct + armor = cost of ship (I think). You could afford to buy the ship but not the repairs? This is like buying a Porsche and wondering why you're not getting the repair bill for a Ford. What are you talking about. I can afford to inject hundreds of million of ISK into space, but that's a total waste of my ISK and time. The repair bill was as much as BS insurance, for something a 25k module can do, in a 1.0 security system from an NPC. None of your analogies work, I think you need to take a class.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 07:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Khemul Zula Edited by: Khemul Zula on 21/12/2008 07:52:37 Originally by: Kate Nexus From ISK sink perspective they'd sink a lot more ISK with lower prices. Your drugs, my hangar, now. Page 2! No drugs, this is common MMO knowledge. If you overprice an item beyond belief, players will avoid it. If it's something they'll pay for convenience then you sink for game money out of the game economy.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 08:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 08:03:17 Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 08:03:09 Originally by: Jacinta Worth If you're an empire person who's likely to get 'tricked' into using repair services, most likely you're just starting, are in a small ship and therefore won't have quite as exhorbitant a repair bill. Ok, then I'm completing level 4's in an imicus. This must make me the best EVE player ever. I think you need to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 08:07:00 - [17] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 08:07:19 Originally by: Lord Fitz You realise that means in your time in game you earn under 6 US cents per hour. I don't work in EVE. Do you? I thought this was a game, apparently some of you think it's a job. Are you guys ISK farmers or something?
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 08:12:00 - [18] I knew it!
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 08:15:00 - [19] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 08:15:12 How do I modify my petitions? Mine just comes up with a blank new one. I want to add some feedback from this thread.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 09:51:00 - [20] Originally by: Venkul Mul 2) the repairs cost a bundle when you have hull damage. The rest of the damage cost very little. So next time if you have hull damage repair the ship with one or more hull repairer. It wasn't hull it was armor.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 09:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: General Ric Originally by: Crackzilla It works out so 100% of struct + armor = cost of ship (I think). You could afford to buy the ship but not the repairs? This is like buying a Porsche and wondering why you're not getting the repair bill for a Ford. Using that analogy, its more like you get some dents and scratches on your porsche, and in order to fix it they charge you the cost of a new porsche. Armor is armor, the armor on a battleship shouldn't be any more expensive or cheaper than the armor on a frigate, with the exception that there is more of it. Um, no, that like if you total your porsche, they charge you the cost of a new porsche. If you only wreck 50% of the bodywork then you pay less. Can you buy a magic item for 5 bucks that magically repairs your porsche for free? This analogy is full of fail.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 09:54:00 - [22] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 09:53:52 Originally by: Malcanis Petition results eagerly anticipated! If you help me find my petition I'll wrap the results in a bow and present them to you asap. But I wanted to ask for a lapdance with my repairs as posters in this thread say I deserve. Right now I lost my petition and don't really know where it went.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 09:58:00 - [23] I'll have you all know I worked back my 5 million ISK and another 40 million. It was long and hard and I risked my life doing it, but I did it. If I'm to believe the people of this fine forum then I just beat one of the hardest level 4's in a frigate with no guns on a 5 day old character. This is an accomplishment, but I still want my repair refund or a lapdance. No free rides on my ISK.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:00:00 - [24] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 10:03:55 Originally by: Tippia Your problem ù and what is getting you flamed ù is that you haven't defined "reasonable prices". You need a point of comparison to put the price into perspective. The price you pay in other MMOs is completely irrelevant because they have neither the economy nor the full-PvP nature of ≡v≡. You need to consider the cost of repairs to similar services in ≡v≡ before you call it outrageously overpriced. There's no "full PVP" in a 1.0 system, and I already compared the price to a similar service: a 10,000 ISK module. What's the point of having a 5 million ISK service that does the same as a 10,000 ISK module if not to trick people into using it once and never again? Originally by: Tippia For instance, is the repair cost for 99% damage less than the cost of a new ship? If so, it's not an unreasonable price. Is the repair cost for any given amount of damage less than if you were to use nanite paste? If so, it's not unreasonable. Do you sell ships rather than tanking them? I don't, that's just a silly idea. Armor tanking you repair armor, shield tanking you repair shield. Nanite paste is for modules FYI, none of mine were overheated or damaged.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Achmed DeadTerrorist so? you dont have to use the service. and I won't ever again. If that's the point of repair service price, so nobody uses it, then so be it.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Malcanis You forgot wardecs. undocking and running hull reps for 5 minutes isn't really an option then, is it? I'm not in a wardec. Next.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:08:00 - [27] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Malcanis You forgot wardecs. undocking and running hull reps for 5 minutes isn't really an option then, is it? I'm not in a wardec. Next. Then don't use the repair service. Next. Already answered a post exactly like that 2 posts ago. Next.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:11:00 - [28] Originally by: Tippia Yes there is. It's everywhere in ≡v≡. Not in a PVP zone like I already said. Repairshop is an NPC, not a player.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Maria Kalista Btw: before you hit the repair button, it clearly states the costs of the repair. But I guess you just hit the repair button before giving it a thought or 2, amiright? If you bothered to read the post you wouldn't have to ask. Obviously I assumed that no game dev would up a repair price in a safe zone to insane amounts that would deter anyone from ever using it. I thought wrong, and I issued my complaint. Any more questions?
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:14:00 - [30] Originally by: Malcanis The point being that the service is there for people who do need to use it. No-one forced you to use it instead of spending time with a repper. No-one forced you to click "OK" without checking the price. No-one forced you to subscribe to a game where your pay for your careless mistakes. You screwed up, and it cost you a trivial sum of ISK. Deal with it. I never said anyone forced me, so why do you keep repeating that? My post is there to read, I never implied anyone forced me to do anything. That doesn't mean the price isn't insanely high to a point of uselessness. As you can see I am dealing with it.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Aioa Originally by: Kate Nexus Any more questions? Why do you waste GMs' time with bogus petitions? I don't know if the petition is even sent in, it doesn't list one when I click the petition button. If people on this forum were more helpful then maybe I could answer your question.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:17:00 - [32] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 10:17:56 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Tippia Yes there is. It's everywhere in ≡v≡. Not in a PVP zone like I already said. Repairshop is an NPC, not a player. What the hell is a "PVP zone"?! No such thing in ≡v≡, I'm afraid. Here, it's all PvP, all the timeà even in stations. Drop the sentiment. Nobody is blowing up my ship in a station, and CONCORD exists within .5 and above. This is all common knowledge. 1.0 isn't FFA PVP space. I could sit outside a station for 5 days and nobody is going to attack me. I'm in an NPC corp in 1.0 space, I'm the safest carebear in the world.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Tippia As it is, 1.0 is completely FFA No, it isn't. You need to retake the tutorial.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Malcanis tl;dr: stop being poor, stop whining, and stop expecting to be protected from your own mistakes Stop being unhelpful. What kind of advice is "stop being poor".
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:34:00 - [35] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Malcanis tl;dr: stop being poor, stop whining, and stop expecting to be protected from your own mistakes Stop being unhelpful. What kind of advice is "stop being poor". It is good advice. Everything in EvE costs money. The more money you have, the more stufff you can do. If you're making 1M/hr then you're terrible at whatever it is you're doing. Since you've taken damage, I'm assuming you're missioning. I'd be more than happy to give you advice on how to earn far more than 1M/hr doing that. I don't trust your "advice", you're probably just trying to scam me out of my ISK. I only have 6.5b left and its disappearing 5 million repair cost at a time.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:40:00 - [36] Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 10:46:26 Originally by: Tippia If I decide that I want to pop you in 1.0, I can and will, and the game won't stop me. It will punish me by imposing a rather nasty cost on my actions through the loss of ships, but it will not stop me from actually performing those actions. I travel in fully shield extended drakes with massive HP buffers. What load-out can you fly in 1.0 that's going to pop me before CONCORD pops you?
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Malcanis OK cool, have fun failing. I will have fun, thanks.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Kate Nexus Originally by: Malcanis OK cool, have fun failing. I will have fun, thanks. Yeah, sure sounds like fun accumulating 6.5B at 1m/hr. Still it was smart of you to start grinding 2 years before EvE was released. I turn 1m into 100m on the market and 100m into 100b. Buy low, sell high.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Tippia Deterrents and being "effectively" safe does not make it any less FFA Yes it does.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 10:50:00 - [40] Originally by: Maria Kalista Originally by: Kate Nexus Edited by: Kate Nexus on 21/12/2008 10:45:38 What load-out can you fly in 1.0 that's going to pop me before CONCORD pops you? Its called friends. You and what army? You can't pop my drake in 1.0.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.21 15:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Cyrus Brown I have to say that I think repair bill prices are outrageously priced as well. Thank you Cyrus.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2008.12.24 12:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Shogun Archer This is one of the better threads I've read in a long time. If you would have taken your BS to the Dwarven Blacksmith in (whats it called?) (Azeroth??), you would have saved yourself a ton of ISK. But it surely wouldn't have been nearly as entertaining as your machine gun response whines in this forum. You can repair your stuff at any merchant in Azeroth for a gold, not a million golds. I don't care but it should let me shoot the station without CONCORD blowing me up. How am I suppose to teach the NPC station a lesson in "FFA" if I can't shoot missile at it. They scam me and CONCORD backs them up.

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